How Stable Does Babys Neck Have to Be for Seat

Gear Maniac

Stable Great Necks

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my list below

looking for some recs on stable playable necks. I've owned 9 guitars and every one of them except the Parker had neck issues sooner or latter. Both nicer ones and cheap ones.

I've basically decided to give non traditional materials a try. carbon fiber skins (like parkers) or CF rods, laminates, metal reinforcement rods, etc.

By playable I mean super even (no dead spots, buzzing, fretting out on bends). i'm used to fender and G&L style necks but might learn another neck if i love it. SS frets please.

trying to stay under $1,500. partscaster is an option.

for replacement necks i have:

Warmouth - quarter sawn, roasted, but still tradition wood construction.
aluminati - $800, conducts heat well (not good). wonder about sound.
vox humana store - carbon fiber rods but in europe, not sure they sell to USA
musikraft - carbon rods in some headstock options (fender, CBS)
sweetwood - appears to have carbon rods option
USA Custiom Guitars - appears to offer carbon rods option

whole guitars:
Kiesel - carbon rods in all? guitars.
strandberg- Roasted Maple with 5-ply CF neck-thru-body, non-traditional looks
ibenez - not sure about their necks?
schecter - some with carbon rods, seem a great value.
music man - traditional wood necks? roasted option?
PRS - carbon rods in privatre stock models.5k +, nope
Steinberger - doesn't seem to be making carbon fiber now. non-traditional looks

I have left off a few guitars who were well above 2k.

Gear Guru

You can get Composite Acoustics guitars for around $1500 or less....

-tINY

Gear Maniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by tINY ➡️

[FONT="comic sans ms"][COLOR="indigo"]
You can get Composite Acoustics guitars for around $1500 or less....

dang. forgot to specify solid body electrics.

Gear Guru

Kiesel offers 5- and 7- piece necks....

-tINY

Lives for gear

I would say quarter sawn and roasted should be as stable as wood gets.

M

Lives for gear

I really don't see the big deal with non-metal truss rods let alone non-wood necks. Unless you are a guy that always plays with massive effects and maybe loves EMG pups who cares little for guitar sound, how do you get a rich clean sound? The cheapest guitar I have ever owned is a Sears Silvertone which is of course a wooden neck but doesn't even have an adjustable truss rod. It has two, non-adjustable square metal rods side-by-side, was bought in Gunnison, Colorado (extremely low humidity and cold winters) moved to Maryland (a veritable swamp) and is now in the mountains of Virginia (extremely humid) and the neck has always been dead straight and level. I've only played maybe 100 guitars made in the 1950s but I only recall a handful that couldn't be adjusted to straight. I only ever saw unfixable "S" warps on cheap guitars mostly post 1970.

The point is wood and metal are tried and true given decent quality. I have never been disappointed by a Warmoth neck. Since necks are a very important component affecting tonality carbon rods might present an interesting tonal variation but I've never played a non-wood neck that I loved and even Dan Armstrong guitars that did have wood necks but plastic bodies sounded flat and lifeless. For me sound comes first and foremost, but if that doesn't matter much to you, your list is a great one. If sound matters much, I'd go for the Warmoth and they have excellent return reputation..

Gear Guru

Quote:

Originally Posted by norbury brook ➡️

I would say quarter sawn and roasted should be as stable as wood gets.

M

A 5-piece neck with the grain properly oriented is much more stable than a one-piece neck....

The question is: How stable does it need to be?

-tINY

Lives for gear

Quote:

Originally Posted by tINY ➡️

A 5-piece neck with the grain properly oriented is much more stable than a one-piece neck....

The question is: How stable does it need to be?

-tINY

@ tINY I completely agree and hadn't considered it as it's very rare you see this kind of manufacture in fender style bolt on necks. It's the same principal for a maple neck to have a maple fingerboard glued on rather than one piece, that adds to the stability.

I find maple generally pretty stable but I live in a temperate country so it's rare I have to tweak truss rods much.

M

To be in your budget range it would have to be used but Vigier necks are about as stable as any.Shawn Lane swore by them and they build a Shawn Lane signature model with a completely flat fingerboard radius.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cporro ➡️

my list below

looking for some recs on stable playable necks. I've owned 9 guitars and every one of them except the Parker had neck issues sooner or latter. Both nicer ones and cheap ones.

I've basically decided to give non traditional materials a try. carbon fiber skins (like parkers) or CF rods, laminates, metal reinforcement rods, etc.

By playable I mean super even (no dead spots, buzzing, fretting out on bends). i'm used to fender and G&L style necks but might learn another neck if i love it. SS frets please.

trying to stay under $1,500. partscaster is an option.

for replacement necks i have:

Warmouth - quarter sawn, roasted, but still tradition wood construction.
aluminati - $800, conducts heat well (not good). wonder about sound.
vox humana store - carbon fiber rods but in europe, not sure they sell to USA
musikraft - carbon rods in some headstock options (fender, CBS)
sweetwood - appears to have carbon rods option
USA Custiom Guitars - appears to offer carbon rods option

whole guitars:
Kiesel - carbon rods in all? guitars.
strandberg- Roasted Maple with 5-ply CF neck-thru-body, non-traditional looks
ibenez - not sure about their necks?
schecter - some with carbon rods, seem a great value.
music man - traditional wood necks? roasted option?
PRS - carbon rods in privatre stock models.5k +, nope
Steinberger - doesn't seem to be making carbon fiber now. non-traditional looks

I have left off a few guitars who were well above 2k.

what neck issues are you referring to? I'm not quite clear on how you're having to go to these extremes when regular necks and occasional truss rod adjustments work for everyone else. More detail may give you better responses.

Gear Maniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedorama ➡️

what neck issues are you referring to? I'm not quite clear on how you're having to go to these extremes when regular necks and occasional truss rod adjustments work for everyone else. More detail may give you better responses.

my fender plus deluxe strat needed a few set ups and a plek to play nice over the years.
g&l asat '89. plek to play nice.
taylor 414ce neck set.
my squire '87 actually never had more then a set up done.
my old con student guitar. raised neck. toast.
84' g&l s-2 prob should be pleked to play nice. not paying for it.
2000 seagull S6 neck has help up well.

it seems that over time wood is not so predictable. i've never played a wood neck that was as even as my parker fly. not that they don't exist...i've just never had the pleasure. i've had enough bad luck that i'm looking at other options.

i do sometimes tune low. D or E flat. change strings to 10 or 11's for that. but i try and do that so the pull on the neck is about the same (tension calculators). again, on the parker, no problem. no truss adjust at all. guitar didn't even flinch. on one of my wood necks...you are looking at a truss rod adjustment and maybe some other tweaks. that parker neck is just night and day more stable. if only i liked the flat wide neck on it. : )

Lives for gear

Quote:

Originally Posted by cporro ➡️

it seems that over time wood is not so predictable. i've never played a wood neck that was as even as my parker fly. not that they don't exist...i've just never had the pleasure. i've had enough bad luck that i'm looking at other options.

...that parker neck is just night and day more stable. if only i liked the flat wide neck on it. : )

Actually the Parker neck IS wood; it's just the finish/coating that creates the stability. And I LIKE a wide, flat neck. In fact, I like it a little wider than the Parker, which I *think* is standard Gibson width (1-11/16"). I like 1-3/4" to 1-7/8".

I think a three-piece roasted maple neck with the grain switched would be quite stable. Slap an Ebony fingerboard with SS frets and no inlays on it, and I'm deliriously happy (side dots on it, though).

Gear Maniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhael ➡️

Actually the Parker neck IS wood;

funny you say that. i only learned after i sold it that the core of the neck and body are wood. it has a carbon exoskeleton. it's kinda like an insect. but i wouldn't call it a "wood neck". if a parker does have a wood neck then yes... i would like all my necks to be wood. please disregardful entire post.

i would guess it was very stable wood inside and that the carbon made it impenetrable to moisture. and i think the carbon made it a lot stronger. i went from 9s to 11s and no truss adjustment. not even sure i could measure difference in action. i def didn't think i needed to adjust anything for my playing. this is an extreme example and something i was doing at the time to dial in tone on some lower tunings ( D, E flat).

when i think about wood necks i'm impressed that they can do as well as they actually do. wood has a lot of irregularities when you compare it to manufactured materials. it's designed to carry water. after you have them under 150lbs of tension for 10+ years i would completely expect them to get a bit wavy since they have tiny variances in strength along a neck. yet some of them stand up pretty well.

Lives for gear

Quote:

Originally Posted by cporro ➡️

funny you say that. i only learned after i sold it that the core of the neck and body are wood. it has a carbon exoskeleton. it's kinda like an insect. but i wouldn't call it a "wood neck". if a parker does have a wood neck then yes... i would like all my necks to be wood. please disregardful entire post.

i would guess it was very stable wood inside and that the carbon made it impenetrable to moisture. and i think the carbon made it a lot stronger. i went from 9s to 11s and no truss adjustment. not even sure i could measure difference in action. i def didn't think i needed to adjust anything for my playing. this is an extreme example and something i was doing at the time to dial in tone on some lower tunings ( D, E flat).

Actually, the wood inside was usually basswood, which would not have withstood the tension of the strings. The carbon fiber/epoxy coating, or exoskeleton, provided that strength and stability.

As an FYI what's left of Steinberger today is just foreign-built, all wood copies of the real stuff. If you want a Steinberger neck you'll have to go and find an older guitar. People were using Moses graphite replacements at one point, but I'm not sure they still make those either.

Gear Guru

I understand that a Great Neck can be found on Long Island, New York.....

Gear Guru

If you're interested in a graphite neck I'd suggest contacting the Modulus company, but it's not going to be cheap. I believe they did the graphite neck on Jack Casady's P-bass, which I have played, briefly. Played great, but was a bit neck heavy.

Ibanez necks?...and to answer your question mark on that item..

Wicked great necks...and im only speaking about my 4 from the late 70's..

Probably the one trademark of Ibby guitars..the necks.

Gear Addict

The even taper neck on my Anderson is incredible.

Gear Guru

Quote:

Originally Posted by cporro ➡️

... i do sometimes tune low. D or E flat. change strings to 10 or 11's for that.

So you normally play 9's?

Gear Maniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️

So you normally play 9's?

think so. i didn't even realize i had 10's on until i calipered it. but it makes sense with the low tuning. i'd like to go back to 9's after this recording is done. not trying to get repetitive strain injuries.

current project is kind rage against the machine stuff...from my band in the 90s.

Lives for gear

Quote:

Originally Posted by cporro ➡️

my fender plus deluxe strat needed a few set ups and a plek to play nice over the years.
g&l asat '89. plek to play nice.
taylor 414ce neck set.
my squire '87 actually never had more then a set up done.
my old con student guitar. raised neck. toast.
84' g&l s-2 prob should be pleked to play nice. not paying for it.
2000 seagull S6 neck has help up well.

it seems that over time wood is not so predictable. i've never played a wood neck that was as even as my parker fly. not that they don't exist...i've just never had the pleasure. i've had enough bad luck that i'm looking at other options.

i do sometimes tune low. D or E flat. change strings to 10 or 11's for that. but i try and do that so the pull on the neck is about the same (tension calculators). again, on the parker, no problem. no truss adjust at all. guitar didn't even flinch. on one of my wood necks...you are looking at a truss rod adjustment and maybe some other tweaks. that parker neck is just night and day more stable. if only i liked the flat wide neck on it. : )

Plek will not save you from doing regular setups, unfortunately .
The wood reacts to temperature changes, string tension, knocks... whether you plek'd it or not. Nuts wear out as do the frets. Tuners need care and tightening regularly. Changes in string changes require intonation adjusts, bridge tuning...
Besides Plek is overly expensive and does not make commercial sense.
Neck are more stable with more wood behind them and by including bits in their design which are not subject to changes to that degree (like laminates with harder wood, graphite rods or laminates.....)
I have 4 parkers (2 Night-fly's Mojo's, 1 Deluxe, , 1 Southern Night-Fly) and they need setting up same as any guitar. The graphite fingerboard is not a panacea, you still need to adjust things. The steel frets last longer but not forever.

Gear Guru

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️

Neck are more stable with more wood behind them and by including bits in their design which are not subject to changes to that degree (like laminates with harder wood, graphite rods or laminates.....)

I disagree somewhat with the "more wood behind them" bit. My J-200 (and the one I used to own as well) has a very skinny neck, especially for an acoustic and it never has problems. However it is laminated, with a strip of walnut between two pieces of maple.

That neck is skinnier than most electrics and jazz guitars. Amazingly stable.

And being an acoustic it has heavier strings than most electrics.

IIRC the only acoustic I've seen/played with a skinnier neck was a Grammer, which was almost TOO skinny.

Lives for gear

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️

I disagree somewhat with the "more wood behind them" bit. My J-200 (and the one I used to own as well) has a very skinny neck, especially for an acoustic and it never has problems. However it is laminated, with a strip of walnut between two pieces of maple.

That neck is skinnier than most electrics and jazz guitars. Amazingly stable.

And being an acoustic it has heavier strings than most electrics.

IIRC the only acoustic I've seen/played with a skinnier neck was a Grammer, which was almost TOO skinny.

Yes, but the laminations keep it more stable. Ibbo necks are very skinny, yet stable due to their dense laminations. The J200 (we have 4 of them here) fall in the same category
Now, I really like big necks on my guitars. And I noticed ALOT less movement on those then the skinny ones. These are on teles, Jazzmasters and some strats.
There is a company called Vigier guitars. They don't use truss rods, yet have a very stable neck design. Because they have a carbon (?) lamination in them.

Back in the 1970's the Rex Bogue custom guitars had 2 square steel rods fitted inside the necks. That includes the custom double neck John McLaughlin played. Those things never moved and they were also heavy.

Lives for gear

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarkerStreet ➡️

People were using Moses graphite replacements at one point, but I'm not sure they still make those either

They don't; Moses got out of the musical instrument business not too long ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️

If you're interested in a graphite neck I'd suggest contacting the Modulus company, but it's not going to be cheap.

Likewise, after going out of business and then being resurrected a few years ago, Modulus no longer offers separate necks, they're only producing whole instruments these days.

Now, if you could find a (lightly) used Modulus neck, that would be the shiznit.

You might still be able to buy a neck only from Status Graphite

Gear Maniac

as mentioned a few graphite players have left the market. bummer. my next acoustic and electric will probably be graphite to some extent. i figure i've given wood a 30 year run and had mixed results. bad luck.

i wonder if a s-style replacement neck that was graphite would have any interest. basically a fugetaboutit neck.

Both my cheap Ibanez MIK RG170's have mega stable necks, the only strat I have that is more stable is a quatersawn neck that is pretty chunky.

Ibanez necks seem to have outstanding stability, these ones I've got aren't crazy thin but no way are they chunky (wizard iii necks are about 19mm at the head and 20 at 12th fret if I remember..) but geez they feel rock solid.

Lives for gear

When you say "stability issues " what exactly are the problems you are seeing? The neck on my 72 les Paul needs an occasional tweak, but my 335 is stable. My Ricks generally don't need any adjustment. The one piece maple necks on my ESP Tele and Strat are dead stable.

The only neck I have seen stability problems with are Fender necks where the owner has allowed the instrument to sit with too much relief in the neck for years, then tried to straighten it out. The feet slots get widened, and the neck gets a bit floppy. I wonder if, because you are using light strings and a de-tune, you end up with no tension on the rod at all? That might make things a bit more prone to movement.

I'd agree that thickness doesn't necessarily correlate to stability. My 72 Guild S100 has a very thin neck, but it's highly stable.

How Stable Does Babys Neck Have to Be for Seat

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